Fresh Paint - How important to work with a Porsche specialist?

[dogleg 2.0L Find all posts View Profile Close dogleg]

So, I'm about ready to paint my car and I want it done right. But word on the street is that the best Porsche specialty shops are booked up solid with extensive waiting lists. How much would I be sacrificing by going to a standard body shop with a good reputation but one that does not necessarily know these early cars? The car is fairly clean. No rust to speak of but I'm sure there will be some surprises once we get the paint off (there always are).

Anyone gone this route? I'd appreciate opinions.

[flatsixer aka rstarga Find all posts View Profile Close flatsixer]

A good painter is a good painter as long as he knows what, where and how to paint. Are you giving him a bare car, or will he take it apart? That would be my only concern.

[np 2.0L Find all posts View Profile Close np]

How much would I be sacrificing by going to a standard body shop with a good reputation but one that does not necessarily know these early cars? The car is fairly clean. No rust to speak of but I'm sure there will be some surprises once we get the paint off (there always are).

likely a lot, in my opinion--there are a million little details to get right, and many of them change year to year. even a very good shop will have a hard time getting these things right if they aren't familiar with these cars.

now, if you already have a comprehensive list of 'this should be black, this should be body color, this should be unpainted, etc.' and are doing both disassembly and reassembly, then I'm sure a good shop could follow your list and do a nice job.

I did most disassembly and reassembly on my car, but I sent the car to an early911 expert for the actual paint and body work so it would be done right.

[bob joyce 2.4L Find all posts View Profile Close bob joyce]

it would ultimately come down to how well you know your car
the years are painted differently.
but if you can give the painter a drawing detailing what and how to paint and come to an understanding that your description would be the "contract"
i think it is doable....

[Bahman 2.0L Find all posts View Profile Close Bahman]

The easiest paints to use are single-stage urethane, such as Imron. Very frogiving, and imperfections (e.g., sags, ripples, etc.) can be easily sanded and polished after curing.

Fine-grade metallics are the hardest to apply, requiring much experience, refinement, and familiarity with paint chemistry on the part of the technician doing the actual spraying. The paint chamber quality is also super critical insofaras controlling temperature, humidity, ventilation, cleanliness, and much more are concerned.

Regardless of the above, the painter is an artist, and quality of the outcome is very dependent upon the talent, skill, creativity and caring of the person doing the actual spraying. It's critical to meet, interview, and ask a lot of questions from the person who will be actually spraying the paint.

Having experienced all of the above personally (not fun), I have resorted to painting my own cars using single-stage urethane paints. The results are superb. See my 1972 E black targa pics in the registry here.

[J Schiavone a.k.a. John912 Find all posts View Profile Close J Schiavone]

likely a lot, in my opinion--there are a million little details to get right, and many of them change year to year. even a very good shop will have a hard time getting these things right if they aren't familiar with these cars.

now, if you already have a comprehensive list of 'this should be black, this should be body color, this should be unpainted, etc.' and are doing both disassembly and reassembly, then I'm sure a good shop could follow your list and do a nice job.

I did most disassembly and reassembly on my car, but I sent the car to an early911 expert for the actual paint and body work so it would be done right.

I second what NP says -- hopefully you are physically close to the painter, but there are many details that need to get communicated, which he may or may not want to deal with

[VintageExcellence 2.2S Find all posts View Profile Close VintageExcellence]

Under no circumstances should anyone ever talk with Esposito Restoration as they are active scammers ripping off the Porsche community John Esposito and Laurina Esposito are crooks. Simply google “Esposito restoration fraud”. Just need to get that out there on this new forum.


That being said Porsche painting is a pain these days. Spend more than you think on this area than any other area. Good luck to you!

[sebaroher Seabass Find all posts View Profile Close sebaroher]

Under no circumstances should anyone ever talk with Esposito Restoration as they are active scammers ripping off the Porsche community John Esposito and Laurina Esposito are crooks. Simply google “Esposito restoration fraud”. Just need to get that out there on this new forum.


That being said Porsche painting is a pain these days. Spend more than you think on this area than any other area. Good luck to you!

+1
I sold a nice set of cookie cutters to a member on the bird because his fuchs disappeared when his car went to Esposito.


Now to the OP's question... I think if your car has what my body guy would call "breadcrumbs" then you will be fine. What I mean by that is that the original finish exists providing details on how it gets repaired, goes back together, and finished out. What set my bodywork back was the previous work that was done (repaint in the 70's or 80's) and some poor rust repair this caused a lot of research hours for both me and my body guy. Despite this, I have been thrilled with the work performed by my body guy. I would not hesitate to use a body guy that does not specialize in early 911's as metal work is metal work, paint is paint... As long as they understand how it goes together you will be fine...Sure you can pay the "Porsche tax" and take it to a shop that "specializes" in 911's but you may not necessarily get what you pay for... just my .02

-Sebastian

[VintageExcellence 2.2S Find all posts View Profile Close VintageExcellence]

Shameless plug, I am available for resto consultation, I have painted 2 dozen 911s to expert levels. Experienced in spotting all metal work issues and correct body shaping. I do the final assembly on countless cars so I’ve seen all the issues after bad work more times than I can remember. You want to be able to scrutinize the body in primer before paint is applied - this is the critical juncture where wrongs can be righted before all is lost. Even a mediocre body guy’s work can be righted if someone that really knows their shit gets in evaluates before color is applied. This is a delicate situation because your guy will believe he has it right without your approval in the last stages (95% of the time I find that thought false). Most repaint jobs are not great in my opinion. Often could be leaps better with a little Porsche knowledge thrown in before it’s shot.

I don’t know about “Porsche tax” there are guys that charge a premium for being Porsche specialist, usually earned. Plenty just have a price and you pay it or don’t use them. Get it flat is simple and can be done by any body guy, body fitment is a whole other issue and they all need fitment - trim fitment on top of that for the real top notch cars. I’ve seen some of the the Porsche experts mess up too. Sometimes the problem is so out of the box you need a special Porsche guy and pay the tax or be screwed. The non specialist metal only guy faced with an odd fitment issue will not magically make a Porsche square with all trim fitting A+ If he has never done it before. It takes at least 10 times to fit all the trim to a 911 before you can begin to call yourself an expert. Man have I messed up some trim and fit on cars in the past, I learned when they were cheap, do you want to pay a guy big money to learn when the are expensive

[Gold71 2.2L Find all posts View Profile Close Gold71]

Dog leg..for sure use this group of experts and by all means don’t rush to make decision of which to use …
please take a ton of photos of all details and areas inside , outside and bottom…
try to utilize a member as consultant who is close to you and the painter …Do not select a painter not close to you.

BTW where are you ?what year is your 911 ?

[JP aka LiveFromNY Find all posts View Profile Close JP]

Lots of good advice here and a road I went down as well before I decided to open my own shop. Yes, that's really where I ended up.

As others have said, it's just about the details. Great painters aren't that hard to find but finding a shop that understands the importance of the tiny details and is willing to invest the time to get them right can be challenging.

How picky are you? Here in TX, lots of shops don't want to use single stage Glasurit. That was a deal breaker for me. What about fasteners? Are you unconcerned about the fasteners? Just want to make sure the finish is correct (yellow/silver)? Or are you one of those nuts who cars about the markings on the bolts? Does your shop know who does the best trim work? Or where to get the best-fitting seals?

Ideally, it's always great to work with someone who really knows these cars but if that's not an option than you must find a shop who will consider the project a collaborative effort and allow you the opportunity to consult about the details and be involved day-to-day. Certainly, consulting with an expert can also be helpful if you don't know the details well enough yourself.

Just my $.02.

[GT3Racerich 2.0L Find all posts View Profile Close GT3Racerich]

Lots of good advice here and a road I went down as well before I decided to open my own shop. Yes, that's really where I ended up.

As others have said, it's just about the details. Great painters aren't that hard to find but finding a shop that understands the importance of the tiny details and is willing to invest the time to get them right can be challenging.

How picky are you? Here in TX, lots of shops don't want to use single stage Glasurit. That was a deal breaker for me. What about fasteners? Are you unconcerned about the fasteners? Just want to make sure the finish is correct (yellow/silver)? Or are you one of those nuts who cars about the markings on the bolts? Does your shop know who does the best trim work? Or where to get the best-fitting seals?

Ideally, it's always great to work with someone who really knows these cars but if that's not an option than you must find a shop who will consider the project a collaborative effort and allow you the opportunity to consult about the details and be involved day-to-day. Certainly, consulting with an expert can also be helpful if you don't know the details well enough yourself.

Just my $.02.

What is the name of your shop? Do you have a link? Thanks.

[1967s_307184s F-N-G Find all posts View Profile Close 1967s_307184s]

Visiting my local trimmer recently there was a 64 Carrera II getting interior work. The Carrera was restored/painted by someone in Prescott AZ (non-Porsche restorer), name unknown. Supposedly, owned by someone in FL, again unknown. The Carrera was beautiful except one big problem that stood out, door gaps. No way to hide that and got me to wondering if the owner was keeping tabs on things, I think not. Even if the restorer/painter is a non-Porsche type, to this day can't understand why that car wasn't done right.

[JP aka LiveFromNY Find all posts View Profile Close JP]

What is the name of your shop? Do you have a link? Thanks.

Private shop for my cars (for now, at least).

[dogleg 2.0L Find all posts View Profile Close dogleg]

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful responses. I'm going to take all of this into account as I start my search.