R v. W overturned

[Frank Beck Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Frank Beck]

my problem with the God/Jessus thing is that it just does not work out that way
one group says they have "the book" and another group says hell no.... we have the "book'
and if you do not believe and attend their church you are dirt......
how many millions of humans need to die over this nonsense?

Bob, when hard conversations occur my hope is that they always head straight to "religion". I really do feel bad that you had a terrible experience with people who claim to be Christ followers. Evaluating Jesus and his Gospel by how Christianity is practiced and executed by broken and sinful humans is like hating and denying physics because you don't like the effects of gravity.

Here it is: All humans come into this world defective and tainted by sin. We cannot attain holiness or "wholeness" without an intermediary and savior. God's attribute of justice demands that we be "perfect" (Holy. Without sin). Fortunately his attribute of love has provided a solution in Jesus. Accepting our defect and crying out for help is the first step to understanding that Jesus is our perfect Lord and advocate. No matter how "good" or virtuous one thinks they are they cannot achieve a right and acceptable relationship with God on their own and without The Perfect Advocate. Jesus performed his sacrifice on the cross to satisfy God's demand for justice. He died in our place. I understand this is hard teaching and one either has "ears to hear" or doesn't. My eyes and ears were opened in 1988 and I have lived my life trusting God's grace and sovereignty since. Do I still sin? Of course! But my desire is to repent when I do.

How does one know that Christianity is the only correct "religion"? It's the only one where God reached down toward man rather than man struggling to use his own devices to find a way to meet and satisfy God. Here's another clue: Ever notice how absolutely hostile and contentious people get when "Jesus" is mentioned? This militant hostility and venom is other-worldly.

Unfortunately those cruel people who called themselves Christians didn't understand they are nothing more than grateful beggars longing to show other beggars where the food is. Any action or behavior that displays some type of self-righteousness or self-virtue is not a trait that is poured into a soul that's been saved from eternal destruction and misery.

If someone is offended by this post... I'm all ears. I would love nothing better than to keep this conversation going.

[Frank Beck Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Frank Beck]

BTW Bob, my "leaving a fart in your car" comment is all in good fun. I love my wife more than any human on this planet and yet sometimes giving her a "dutch oven" provides hilarious entertainment!

To John's point about "being mean" to one another. Couldn't agree more that malicious gestures with evil intent crosses the line but mocking and joking with other men is sometimes called for. If we were knights who could joust I would hope we would be doing that instead.

I'm afraid in this current culture men are caving to a PC attitude that is far more feminine than masculine.

[Chris Pomares 2.4L Find all posts View Profile Close Chris Pomares]

Good stuff Frank. Doug recommends a movie. I'll recommend a book. How good is good enough, by Andy Stanley.
They have tv series about witches, warlocks, Lucifer, etc. People praise Allah (and I would die to protect their right to do so) and it gets put on the news without judgement. But if someone says the name Jesus the media's eyeballs spin around like a pea in a whistle. If people of faith (any) pray at a game, don't want their kids taught this weird gender stuff, (any of you guys had a period lately) they are portrayed as extreme. If they voice their concerns at a teacher meeting they are called terrorist's. I mean who's kid's are they? The parents or the government? As we cover this, the pro choice group is defacing buildings that support the unborn. When was the last time libertarians or conservatives protested in front of the supreme court judges houses. It's just nuts.
I live in Colorado. I have many friends who I suspect are not inclined to believe in God. I don't judge them as I'm a sinner saved by grace. I'm not even close to being good enough to be in God's presence without the grace of Jesus. But I do pray for them.
As most of us on this site are as I suspect in our 50's or north of that, we are strong in our positions. I hope like Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neil we can agree to disagree and still be good friends. The two would get together after hours, have a beer together, tell jokes, and live to fight (politically) another day. It seems the internet has allowed the extreme folks on both the left and right to find the like minded and it's created a political uncivil war. For those of us who pray, may we pray for a more civil society. At 70 years old I never thought our country could fall this far. It brakes my heart.
I have a question for those who think the Federal government is a good source to fix problems. What gov't program are they running that operates in the black?
John F Kennedy said "A rising tide raises all ships, and, Don't ask what the country can do for you, (you know gov't provided free everything) ask what you can do for the country". I think he was on to something.

[Frank Beck Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Frank Beck]

Good stuff Frank. Doug recommends a movie. I'll recommend a book. How good is good enough, by Andy Stanley.
They have tv series about witches, warlocks, Lucifer, etc. People praise Allah (and I would die to protect their right to do so) and it gets put on the news without judgement. But if someone says the name Jesus the media's eyeballs spin around like a pea in a whistle. If people of faith (any) pray at a game, don't want their kids taught this weird gender stuff, (any of you guys had a period lately) they are portrayed as extreme. If they voice their concerns at a teacher meeting they are called terrorist's. I mean who's kid's are they? The parents or the government? As we cover this, the pro choice group is defacing buildings that support the unborn. When was the last time libertarians or conservatives protested in front of the supreme court judges houses. It's just nuts.
I live in Colorado. I have many friends who I suspect are not inclined to believe in God. I don't judge them as I'm a sinner saved by grace. I'm not even close to being good enough to be in God's presence without the grace of Jesus. But I do pray for them.
As most of us on this site are as I suspect in our 50's or north of that, we are strong in our positions. I hope like Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neil we can agree to disagree and still be good friends. The two would get together after hours, have a beer together, tell jokes, and live to fight (politically) another day. It seems the internet has allowed the extreme folks on both the left and right to find the like minded and it's created a political uncivil war. For those of us who pray, may we pray for a more civil society. At 70 years old I never thought our country could fall this far. It brakes my heart.
I have a question for those who think the Federal government is a good source to fix problems. What gov't program are they running that operates in the black?
John F Kennedy said "A rising tide raises all ships, and, Don't ask what the country can do for you, (you know gov't provided free everything) ask what you can do for the country". I think he was on to something.

Chris, one of the best posts I've read lately. Anywhere.

I am incredibly thankful to JP for providing a place where those who share in a frivolity like vintage Porsche collecting can communicate their deepest thoughts and convictions without fear of censorship or post deletion.

Agree to disagree. With vigor and respect.

[Chris Pomares 2.4L Find all posts View Profile Close Chris Pomares]

WOW. Thanks Frank. And thank you JP.

[bob joyce 2.4L Find all posts View Profile Close bob joyce]

Frank . it is all good.... I see you Mr. Rickles

[bob joyce 2.4L Find all posts View Profile Close bob joyce]

Cris..... Government spending on infrastructure. If you think that spending Let's say 2 billion would be in the red column.
Well ....no... The courthouses, freeways, roads trans systems, schools etc. They make it possible for companies large and small to exist and prosper.
Infact our deteriorating infrastructure is our biggest competitive disadvantage.

[Chris Pomares 2.4L Find all posts View Profile Close Chris Pomares]

If you look at Colorado's roads and realize the Fed's and State take care of them, then you just made my point. If this is what we get to stay in the black I stand corrected. Yuck. I wonder if a non connected (kickback) private sector company could do it for less. The right has their crooks to. I went to Wyoming 2 or 3 times in the last few years. You know the state with all those white gun toting racists except for Liz of course. Well her dad has guns anyway. If you hate Trump you get a free "your a good person exemption" even if your white. All you have to do is believe your really a minority and your skin color doesn't count. Apparently this works for gender so why not skin color. If your right of center, this just won't work as we are all evil. Kind of like the loon that flies around the planet in his private jet to convince the rest of us to quit using carbon based fuel so he won't run out. If he really believes this why not just use zoom like the rest of the peasants. Heck you just can't hob nob and party on zoom like a true and VERY important elitist unless you have a jet and several huge houses. Apparently it's OK to buy oil from Russia, the Middle East, and a South American country or two that hate us. Heck let's enrichen those guys who hate us and take the jobs away from Americans. Most would vote for the wrong party anyways right. By the way I had forgotten what good roads were like. Oh heck what do I know, I must be one of them haters. The left media tells me that all the time. Wasn't it interesting the diversity party that calls folks like me a depictable white racist and had the most diverse group running for president and they constantly bashed the other party for being too pale. Really? Who did they pick to be President, and lead both houses. Hmmmm.
Oh, when I was a teen I would watch 60 minutes and love how they would demonize the folks producing all those jobs. I wanted the government to milk them for every cent and give it to the young like me. Sound familiar. Those guys employing all those people just had to be evil! By my early 20's I kind of grew up when some of those evil people provided me with a living wage.
By the way, ain't this fun. In some parts of the world the left or right would be dead or in jail. I hope we don't get to that point.

Bob,
I love your restoration work.

[bob joyce 2.4L Find all posts View Profile Close bob joyce]

Chris. i am a (retired 2004) Operating Engineer 50 years. I have even got project funded by a developer; it was greatly to the developers needs and advantage, but it greatly served my community as well..
The point is labor, and materials are not free
To maintain the roads there has to be funds
our politicians are not providing the funds.
And you are not allowed to go out there with a shovel and weel barrow and do it your self



Maybe i read you wrong.... are you suggesting that you would pay some contractor to do the work out of your pocket?

[nvr2mny 69E 3.2MFI Find all posts View Profile Close nvr2mny]

Chris, excellent post amigo. Frank, yours was spot on too. I ain’t much of a reader, dats wise youse guyz arr so much smartr dan me, BUT I’ll look up Andy’s book. His pop, Charles, is an amazing pastor/teacher and I’ve done a number of his studies in mens group over the years.

Our pastor gave what I believe to be one of his best teachings today. Ephesians 2:1-10 If you choose to take @ 35 minutes, I promise it will be time well spent. He starts at min28:08 and finishes @1hr6m.

Frank, you must of heard him today because he mentions beggars in his closing prayer!

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC_Jcr...confirmation=1

Click on “videos” at the top and scroll down to 9:30 service (06/26/22). I thought the link would take you directly there but it doesn’t.


I’m enjoying the dialog.

While we’re ‘thanking’ people, I’d like to thank Chuck.
If not for him, and his misguided actions, this place wouldn’t exist.

Obviously, JP picked up the ball and put tremendous time and resources into building a first class “Judgement Free” community where we can discuss life……….and cars without fear. I am loving the banner ads for the early9 on PCA and other sites JP. Well done and yes, THANK YOU.

I’d probably suck at jousting, my pole isn’t long enough.

[Chris Pomares 2.4L Find all posts View Profile Close Chris Pomares]

Bob,
First I want to say I believe there are a lot of good folks in the public sector. They are stuck in what I believe for right or wrong to be in a very inefficient system. I have many friends who are or where in the public sector. The stories they have told me what was purchased at the end of their fiscal year so they could protect and grow their budget just about gives me a stroke. Everyone in my extended family was or is a business owner. You would be excommunicated if you admitted to having a job. Just kidding.
A case in point. An earthquake in LA. One or more bridges needed rebuilt and there was no time for all the red tape. It was done under budget and early. WOW. They saved time and money. Under the previous administration they cut tons of red tape. The country's economy was growing, we had enough energy production to meet our needs and we could have helped Europe and sent them oil to deal with the Russia issue. I was buying premium gas for $1.95 a gallon. The US oil industry would be paying more in taxes for the roads we need. Those six figure oil industry jobs would create another tax base instead we are paying them a stipend as they are now under employed or unemployed. Why not Nuclear? It's clean and it has the highest energy density. The French do it. If they can so can we. Currently wind and solar produce only 3% of our energy needs. And the greens want to rid us of Nuclear, oil, and gas before we even have built a alternative energy source or grid. Watch this summer for brownouts. State's like California will go to Nevada with hands out begging for energy to a state that made different choices.
I believe for right or wrong the country is being run inefficiently and graft in DC is out of control. DC has the highest disparity between the top and bottom income earners in the country. 95% of the people there vote for the "we care about the working class" party. Hmmm. You would think they would do anything possible to set an example for the rest of us. I believe the tax base is there if used properly.
It's the choices being made that cause me concern.

[bob joyce 2.4L Find all posts View Profile Close bob joyce]

I believe the LA contractor you are referring to was (i won't say).
I was hired to work for him on the highway 4 /680 .
The reason for hiring me was because they needed the layouts and excavations to be spot on because they wanted to immediately boom in the iron and forms and not be slowed down with having to trim and cleanup mistakes.
I was to be the bases of this new division (previously a sub-contractor would do the excavations, but they encountered way too many mistakes.)
I eventually had to leave because i was asked to do things that i knew were wrong and i refused to do so even though i was told everyone including the inspectors were:" in on it"
My gut tells me that Boeing big failure that was released to the public and crashed was because the president signaled all clear to the inspectors and regulators. Remember he owned a failed airline and I'm sure he wanted everyone to believe he knew how to build planes. i base my gut on visits to and statements he made at the time of the plane's development.
Is there to much red tape......... Hell Yes........... a lot of people take advantage of regulations and then the politicians chime in to gain them as supporters.
Good comes from regulation as well.
I defended a creek adjacent my house that was to be the road for 22 homes.
I understood the rules because of my work as an Operating Engineer performing operations in sensitive areas and pointed this out and that was the end of that project.
Also, the project had a land slide that was to be repaired and that would have bankrupted the developer.
I know because i had performed the land slide repair on a landslide a little more than a mile downstream from that location just a few years earlier.
They both were depicted on old Geologist maps on the same page no less...
And in a couple years around that time 3 projects in this town went bankrupt due to land slide repairs that were way outside the engineering statements

[jaudette3 Really? Find all posts View Profile Close jaudette3]

Interesting discussion. May I request paragraphs? My eyes are not what they used to be.

Thanks,
John

[Chris Pomares 2.4L Find all posts View Profile Close Chris Pomares]

Bob,
First off, it appears your one of the really good ones that have worked for the common good of the country. Thank you. You have made some good points. Damn I hate being wrong. My glasses only focus clearly center right. Just kidding. To be honest I don't trust 90% of our politicians on either side of the isle in DC. Most of the ones professing to be center right and support small business are Rinos and are full of pure BS based on how they vote. To be honest I have more respect for the liberal Democrats, as they are socialists and work to produce what they say. The Republicans on the other hand (and I vote for them while holding my nose as I'm more of a Rand Paul libertarian) other than a few are a bunch of wimpy lying ...... so and so's. I wish we had term limits. The idea of lifer professional politicians just doesn't fair well with me on many points.
I'm enjoying this discourse. It's really good to hear from the other side. As most of my friends are business owners and feel put out by rules and regs designed by people who have never owned one, we become very jaded by their lack of understanding what they're doing to us.
Keep throwing it out Bob. I find your prospective interesting.

[nvr2mny 69E 3.2MFI Find all posts View Profile Close nvr2mny]

Interesting discussion. May I request paragraphs? My eyes are not what they used to be.

Thanks,
John

I hear ya John. Also, someone great once said “and I like comma’s”, can’t remember who,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,